show #97: lab chat response

show #97
show #97

a brief show in response to the emotionally charged comment threads which started after the first lab chat broadcast…who would have expected that a few were of the nasty kind?

enjoy out post mortem analysis:

and just handful of links this week as we are out the door already:

lab chat crowd - darn big
lab chat crowd – darn big
  • and a few other blog posts [from canary and one from loki eliot] on lab chat
  • the official videos of lab chat on the sl yt channel
  • luca grabacr made another great video

the drax files radio hour [with jo yardley] is a weekly production of basicdrax entertainment.

the show is supported by maven homes, gizza creations, botanical, strawberry singh, abranimations, aeros avatars, kahruvel design, giant snail races every saturday, avacon, the cube republic, fatewear by damien fate, the avazines publication family, {what next}, bright canopy, dutchie furniture, landscapes unlimited, dwarfins, the den, fallen gods incorporated, feroshSL, kona STREAM and Death Row Designs.

music by bd.

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28 Comments Add yours

  1. lokieliot says:

    Palmer Lucky announced a game for Oculus…..a guitar game… ‘Deflated WOOT’

    As for Peoples worries about SL being cannibalised. I understand why some people are concerned. For some people Project Sansar might not give them features that are key to their Second Life existence, and thats ok because Second Life will continue along side Sansar. The anxiety might come from the same worry camp as region decline. How small can the SL community be before it’s unsustainable? From my perspective, if Sansar is successful enough to pull that many people away from Second Life, then maybe Linden Lab could subsidise the SL community with Sensors success? I still do not think Second Life has anything to worry about from cannibalisation, but i understand why people are concerned.

    Also when you guys say ‘Probably’ with regards to anything in Sansar, it’s assumption that does not make me feel any better. I really want Ebbe to clarify how Avatars are going to be used, owned, and move from experience to experience. Im pleased with everything else i’ve heard about Sansar, but this one thing really of interest to me.

  2. Jo Yardley says:

    Reblogged this on Jo Yardley's Second Life and commented:

    The latest Drax Files Radio hour is here;

  3. Richardus Raymaker says:

    I want for sure to know more about the avatars and what limitations there are between experiences. and if it can be customized with clothing like secondlife. it’s very important that you can visit other experiences without the push to a bad ugly looking avatar. Also the lab chat did let it sound like there or dozens of the same clones.. uhmm avatars in one experience, not some idea to make you happy.

    Having inventory between experiences is other important part, combined with above part.

    If both are possible i do not see much difference between secondlife and sansar. as long sansar is finaly in a price range for everybody. means around 90% cheaper then secondlife land.

  4. re. Mainland in Sansar:
    One of the major reasons I reside on the mainland is long term security. I pay LL, not a landlord who might back out tomorrow. In my view the Lab will keep the mainland alive until the bitter end.

  5. I will not make a bad Judgment about landlords as i know a few that are really amazing, But if only for all the memories, mainland should be the last thing to go down.

    1. Richardus Raymaker says:

      Experience in sansar is running by Linden Lab servers sofar i know. So i would compare that with Mainland in Secondlife. If your the experience owner.

  6. I noticed some just now, i can not understand what is the meaning of the word “experiences” when some relates to Sansar or even Second Life.
    I do believe that is cause English is not my language, but could not be explained in a more easy way what it means?
    Cause if it is what is on wikipedia, then obviously im not interested at all.
    Virtual and simulation[edit]
    Main articles: Virtual Reality and Simulation Game
    Using computer simulations can enable a person or groups of persons to have virtual experiences in virtual reality.[10] Role-playing games treat “experience” (and its acquisition) as an important, measurable, and valuable commodity. Many role-playing video games, for instance, feature units of measurement used to quantify or assist a player-character’s progression through the game – called experience points or xp.
    On Sl i dont care about the so called experience games, i care about the freedom i have, from building a plane and flying, a bike and ride, to do a race with a car for over 1 hour on a track, to sail without passing by the same region for hours, for going to a concert, to watch a opera, to dance at the sound of a dj, to…..

    1. Willow says:

      Like you I care nothing about experiences. It is the FREEDOM SL that I have enjoyed for ten years I’ve stayed in SL. Besides visiting with friends one thing I enjoy is long distance sailing trips.

      For example one of my favorite sailing trips is to start on the coast of the north continent sail go through about twenty or thirty sims. Then sail across to the southern continent then sail through about twenty or thirty sims there. Most of the time the trips are rarely the same. That is not something you can do in someone’s pre-planned experience.

      I saddens me that because of Ebbe’s mismanagement of the lab that will go away. Probably by mid 2017. If he had started rewriting and modernizing SL code in June 2014 he could have had a vibrant virtual community that would have had a better chance of competing with the other VR worlds that will make their appearance in 2016. Instead he squandered the opportunity he had. The Lab will end up with a crippled SL clone in Sansar along with a dying SL.

      1. Richardus Raymaker says:

        This is more sofar i know how it could be,

        And why do you think people not going to create a sailing experience, possible combined with flying and driving. and trains as example. That mabye can be a hugh experience without simborders. just one endless space. In that experience people could rent land and build there own home. like you now see around SNO and Hollywood airport. I think you can also look further away in sansar then you can in SL without killing your framerate,

        Not see much difference with Secondlife. This idea is based on what i know and think would happen.

        So, it’s maby not so crippled but more improved. Who know is the water more real too ?

      2. Willow says:

        I’m not talking about 4 or 5 sims which I know the sims or what ever they will be called will be bigger but talking about a trip that is 50 or 60 SL sims in length. Plus these trips are not caned and determined by what someone else thinks what a sail should be but it is what I want it to be. One of the joys of SL is it provides the FREEDOM to do what I want not someone else’s idea of what they think I want.

      3. EllaGuru Wellesley says:

        I agree with Willow. The fate of SL has been sealed by Ebbe’s need to reinvent the wheel. SL with ongoing tweaks would stand a better chance with newer VR competitors, then SANSAR will. Renewed interest in VR, in fact would bring more to SL. I really don’t think Linden Lab understand just what makes SL work. SL is the child at play, SANSAR will be grown ups trying to play as children. [face palm] I think Drax and Jo will be disappointed when then do finally get to see just what SANSAR will offer.

      4. Willow says:

        Hi EllaGuru, I love your comparison to SL being the child that has the freedom to play. I certainly don’t want to spend my free time going into Sansar’s adult straight jacket. I had enough of that as I built my career and had to do “what was expected.”

        I also think Jo and Daxtor along with a lot of others will be disappointed when they get in Sansar and realize that Ebbe’s reinvention of the wheel is not only is a straight jacket that curtails the FREEDOM and joy of being a child again It will also kills SL.

        That surprises me. Only a few months ago I thought Daxtor understood that SL was about freedom. Sadly he seems to have put on the Sansar VR Bandwagon Straight Jacket and is contributing to the coming Sansar-SL meltdown.

      5. EllaGuru Wellesley says:

        The freedom to play as we like is what is so wonderful about SL. I am not sure if Philip Rosedale envisioned this, but something beautiful happened quite quickly within SL. It did not matter that it crashed a lot and things did not always go as planned. That was half the fun. Here in SL, “we the community”, could create our wonders, and what wonders we built.
        Open Source was an important aspect to the growth of SL. Would the Linden Lab viewer of today, be so good, without the efforts of Phoenix Firestorm? Would we have 64m prims without the inventive Mega.
        So how odd that OS and the community of creativity, would be excluded from future plans.
        I am sure my views will be ridiculed as out of touch with the now. I just feel LL have made an error of judgment. Foolishly or with arrogance, to think that behind closed doors they can conjure up something to surpass SL. Eye candy is short lived, there will always be new tech around the corner. Longevity can not be planned. SL has it. I hope LL will understand this.
        I am just glad I found SL when I did. It was as if I had been looking all my life for such a place. For that I am grateful to all those past and present at LL. You gave us the opportunity, we did the rest!
        I will continue to encourage friends to try SL, point them to the Drax files. A wonderful window on just how amazing SL is. For me SL is my refuge, I will be sad should it not be there for me

      6. Willow says:

        Hi EllaGuru, If you are ridiculed then I am too since we share the same boat. The positive things that have happen in SL are driven by the users. LL’s role has been there to help around the edges with implementation but otherwise the CEO stays out of the way.

        Unfortunately this time is different. LL has an activist CEO determined to push his personal project of Sansar to the fore and does not care if it cannibalizes SL to the point of it becoming moribund. Since his tenure is up in January 2017 it is a race between now and then whether SL continues to have its vibrant and innovative user community or not.

        Where you and I differ is in recommending SL to friends. I can’t in good conscious recommend something to friends now when I have my own doubts about its survival. I hope that changes but right now development in SL is in too much flux.

        SL is also my refuge and it has been since 2005. Something SL does that is usually overlooked is it help me keep my mind active. If it goes away I will be very sad. I spent most of the last few months looking for possible alternatives. To my disappointment there aren’t any good ones. I still keep up with what is going on with SL and Sansar through blogs. There is too much negativity. Which in my opinion is justified. I just don’t go in world except to do some sailing or say “HI” to friends.

    2. DevinVaughn says:

      Hi ZZ. Experiences is how very different Sansar is from SL. For example: You are you sitting at a computer. You want to play The Sims, you enter that Experience and customize your avatar inside the Sims. Then say you want to play World Of Warcraft. You enter that experience, customize your avatar inside WoW. …. Ebbe has said he wants to make Sansar an easier entry version of Unreal for game makers / world makers. Therefore it sounds to me like Sansar is only an architecture. It is **NOT** a virtual world map with interconnected sims like Secondlife. The sims will not talk to each other in Sansar (but it might be possible for sims to connect?). It sounds to me like this is Linden Lab’s solution to a key problem in SL that prevented it from going mainstream. For example: The University of Florida is holding a class and suddenly an attack of flying penises disrupt the lecture. That kind of trolling will be drastically reduced in Sansar. I feel like SL and Sansar will be very different from each other. World makers and Game Makers might love Sansar more and move there since they will be able to monetize their investment of time and energy to create an experience while in SL those people are hemorrhaging money and which results in sim closing and therefore losses for LL income. … Hope that makes sense. p.s. HyFy sounds like it will more like SL than Sansar.

  7. Medhue says:

    Let’s get 1 thing straight here. I don’t give a shit about getting into sansar. My plates are full. LL would have to pay me to get me to help them, outside of commenting. My point about Sansar being built and advised by only Maya users is that LL isn’t catering to the actual content creators. The Blender community would do many time more for the project than any amount of Maya users ever could. What will likely happen is that sansar will open, the real creators will come in, bitch like crazy, and then some Blender devs will create a plugin that saves Sansar.

    I do love how people project their own insecurities onto other people’s motives.

  8. Richardus Raymaker says:

    I Wish it where already open.
    I Wish we did know the cast of land or to have your own Experience.
    I Wish people created less panic and looked more open to it.

    6-12 months is a long time , especially with all the confusion. Secondlife is just a dead end because it’s out of budget todo something usefull in secondlife. Also lot’s of things are wrong and old.

    I expect that Linden lab have blender support before the go beta. The are not so dump ! The use maya right now as reference to get everything working correct.

  9. cainmaven says:

    To butcher a quote: The only thing we have to fear is change itself.

  10. Nadine says:

    You should check the firestorm blog where a lot of casual Second Life users gather. Firestorm just asked if their users would like to help promoting Second Life to others. Most comments are pure anger and rage.

    I think Linden Lab is about to lose so much money it is not even pretty to think about it. Do not forget people are paying them 3.5 million a month in tier still but are about to pull the plug.

    That money needs to be paid each and every month. With the current outlook of a dead world with another coming in a year people are going to dump even more land now. The Lindens will have to go ahead without profit or even at a small deficit.

    When Sansar blows up their entire company will cave in, CEO kicked out for being incompetent, draxtor his show cancelled and all stuff lost and all staff fired.

    It is hard to believe this crap. Also why would I want to buy stuff in sansar?

    Sansar is highly likely to fail, when I buy objects I only buy a license to use these objects for the time the platform exists. The platform can easily fail as it is a high risk taken by Linden Lab. Why would I spend 100 Dollars or 500 Dollars on content in sansar?

    For that money I can buy a game console for which I am sure I will be able to still use that console in 10 years from now if I wish.

    As a consumer I would prefer to buy a Playstation 4 or whatever instead of spending that money on Linden Lab their highly insecure VR experiment where you can lose that money completely.

    Just look what they do with Second Life now. They don’t care, they want to get rid of it, all the stuff you own and paid for well f**ck you and thanks for playing.

    1. Becky says:

      If you look at the results of that Firestorm survey of over 3000 people, the vast majority, in fact, said they would recommend SL to friends outside of it. That, if anything, goes to show that one should look at comments with skepticism as those who are most negative also tend to be the loudest. Loudness, however, does not equal numbers.


  11. Tks for the explanation, even if i cant see how much different is that then Open sim hyper-grid connected grids, that already have all that working (var regions, teleport between diff grids, not regions only, control of what builds can be exported or used on each other grids and so on).
    Yes if Sansar can be like that but on a better and stable platform, that would be great, but as some above posted, more important rigth now, it to regain customers trust in the only service it provides them steady income.
    And that is not blocksword for sure.

  12. Yordie says:

    I’ve been away (mostly) from SL for about three years and I’ve gained a new perspective on it. I think Jo is right when she points out the special interest and experiential aspects of the virtual world.

    In hindsight my first real connection with SL was when I found Zen gardens, then built my own Zen gardens. I also fell in love with dancing, but my first real interest was in Japanese culture. I’m not Japanese, by the way. When I return to SL, after my first book is published) I will focus on the sci-fi community. I may even try to turn scenarios from the book into SL role play builds.

    Just wandering around SL leads you into many of the unpleasant aspects of the world. The Lab seems to understand this to some extent with their welcome island portals to special interests.

    I think a real problem with SL is that it is very expensive to buy and island. I haven’t checked lately but I was turned off when I learned I couldn’t buy my own Homestead without buying a regular island first. I’ve heard that this is because they’ve entrusted to land barons, of which there are many.

    Just some thoughts… Yordie

    I wish the lab will even on Sl made this also true. Perhaps even better then lowering tier prices, is to allow for more land impact per region and homestead.
    Yes it will mean Linden ALb will have to use more servers, but if more users get var regions and more prim per m2q would not be worth?

    1. Richardus Raymaker says:

      More Land Impact on region is not solving the problem, the area is keeping the same. It’s stioll combination Sqm / Prims. I know Var regions are nice. But not as long the are still expensive 300$. I do not see how a var region would help things in Secondlife. The need to add more servers, in my eyes that means the need to increase the tier to compensate.

      The need to change the whole idea how Secondlife works. Mabye the need to think more like opensim. But with a central asset that Linden lab manage. Let the viewer connect to the assets server. Let premium member sgive the option to run one region by tjemself if the want or the rent from Linden Lab. The server users would not store any assets, so i see no security problem. That way users dont need to bite in the scam linden lab have with the high server prices and high setup costs.

      Other idea, mabye the can rewrite Secondlife , so it can run on top of the project sansar framework and lower the costs dramatical.

      But then, why would you try to safe Secondlife with lot’s of costs if the can bring the same idea’s into project sansar if the want. And then i point especially on that experiences cannot change avatars and that you have inventory you can use everywhere.

      One thing is for sure If the not going to lower the tier with at least50% or more the are bleeding death slowly. Secondlife is keeping me from call it really home because you cannot have soemthing you can call home.

  14. Vera B. says:

    I hope the new platform has nice, smooth, beautiful avatar creation system, with super precise adjustable slider thingies…..possibly something comparable to EVE’s but maybe even better than theirs 🙂 would be awesome!!

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